Ink and Flame Episode #1
Jessica Leigh: Author of The Chronicles of the Tuatha series.

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Transcription

Tina Koutras (00:00)
Welcome to Ink and Flame. This is the very first podcast with Jessica Leigh and we're here to talk about her books and her process and welcome to the podcast Jessica.

Jessica Leigh (00:11)
Thank you so much. you for having me here. I'm really excited to chat with you today.

Tina Koutras (00:16)
Awesome. So to the kick things off, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Jessica Leigh (00:21)
Sure, so I'm an author, I'm from North Carolina, so that's where I live currently in Asheville in the US, and I write primarily fantasy romance that's very deeply rooted in mythology and folklore. So I started writing really years ago, my book came out, the first book I released came out in September 2023, and it's called A Daughter Forged in Fire. And then the second book in that series called A Destiny Spun in Silver came out the following May in 2024.

and I'm planning to release book three of the trilogy this upcoming spring of 2025. So that will be a complete trilogy. It's my passion project. I'm really excited to share it with the world. yeah, that's a little bit about me.

Tina Koutras (01:01)
That's awesome. So what kind of a reader were you growing up?

Jessica Leigh (01:04)
Yeah, so I was a reader of all kinds. I was that kid who read every book in the library that I could get my hands on. I just really loved exploring anything from the classics to, you know, Shel Silverstein. I remember reading Matilda as a kid. All different types of books, really. I was just that kid that was like, I know it's time to go to bed, but I just have like one more chapter, you know? And then I became that kind of adult too, so.

Tina Koutras (01:30)
So I guess you answered the next question, is whether or not you were a flashlight under the covers type or a cozy reader.

Jessica Leigh (01:38)
Yeah, definitely both, I think. I'm still such a cozy reader. Even right now, just having a chat, I've got my cup of tea. So I'm always just trying to cozy up with a candle, cup of tea, and read today. But even as a kid, I just was always reading any time I could get my hands on a book.

Tina Koutras (01:55)
Awesome. So do you remember the first fantasy or romance novel that you picked up?

Jessica Leigh (02:03)
Yeah, so a couple of books kind of stick out of my mind, just kind of what brought me into the fold of fantasy and then by default fantasy romance for me. So The Hero and the Crown by Robin McKinley, that's one that sticks out from when I was a kid that I read and it was just so epic and dragons and a really strong female main character, it just really kind of sucks you in. And then The Mist of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley, she's kind of a pioneer in...

know, female fantasy writers. And I think she also kind of brought back a lot of trend in terms of like arthurian legends and stories that were inspired by legends from the British Isles specifically, which is where a lot of my inspiration has come from too. And so that sort of put me down a pathway of being a little obsessed with King Arthur as a child, all the legends and, you know, even like Gowan and the Green Knight and all those things. So.

Yeah, those two just kind of stick out in my mind. And then of course, like the classics, know, Tolkien and C.S. Lewis and, you know, I feel like I've read Lord of the Rings trilogy umpteen million times, but it never gets old. Neither do the movies, but yeah. So all those things kind of combined, I feel like have kind of woven a tapestry of what inspires me in terms of literary background. So.

Tina Koutras (03:13)
Awesome. those aren't small books, Tolkien. How old were you when you started reading those?

Jessica Leigh (03:20)
Oh man, so for Tolkien, I was probably, I say like 10, 11, 12. I mean, when I really started to think, understand more of the context of the character building, probably I'm thinking early teen years, like 13, 14. My sisters and I were really into that whole trilogy. I can remember like fighting over who was gonna get to read The Hobbit next, right? So yeah, I think it was really...

Tina Koutras (03:26)
Wow.

Ha ha ha.

Jessica Leigh (03:47)
13, 14 was kind of the height of that time for me.

Tina Koutras (03:51)
wicked. How did you discover the blend of fantasy and romance, like romantacy? Like was it love at first sight or kind of more of a slow burn start?

Jessica Leigh (04:00)
Yeah, so I feel like a lot of people may relate with this, but I went through a long period of life where I actually wasn't reading for fun at all. So I'd had that exposure to fantasy and a little bit of fantasy romance in kind of a very surface way earlier in my life. And then for a long time, know, college, getting a few degrees under my belt, I had to read because I was forced to, not because it was fun.

So all I had time to read was nursing textbooks, because by trade, I'm a nurse and a nurse practitioner. And I did that for many years and just really didn't get back into reading for fun until, I want to say it was 2020 or 2021, when I picked up A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Maas. As a lot of us have, I always say it's like the gateway drug of romantasy because how many of us pick it up, and then next thing we know, we blink and we.

put like 60 more books on our TBR under our belt. yeah, that series of books really just pulled me back in. And I honestly try to do like a reread now like every year just because I enjoy them so much. Specifically, Mist and Fury, which is book two in that series for anybody listening that hasn't read. That is one of my favorite books of all time. And a lot of people kind of scoff at that. They're like, that's a newer series? Your favorite book isn't like a classic or Tolkien or something.

Honestly, it's not because Mist and Fury, like I'll just never forget the way I felt the first time I read it. I would give anything to feel the way I felt the first time I read that series again. It was just absolute magic. And yeah, that's kind of what brought me back in. And then, you know, a little while later I just decided to write a romantasy. So here we are.

Tina Koutras (05:38)
that's wicked.

And very similar for me, I was the same story in the sense that I had kind of stopped doing a lot of the reading. And it was when I read Sarah J. Maas's books that I fell back in love with reading in general and, of course, romantacy. So I totally hear you there. And for me, was Nesta's book that did that. I really, really loved that book.

Jessica Leigh (06:02)
I love Nesta

too. I relate with her so much. know she's like so controversial as a character for a lot of people, but I just really relate with her on such a deep level. love Nesta.

Tina Koutras (06:12)
Yeah, for sure. The way that she just talking about Sarah J. Mass in general, the way that she she's a very patient writer, like the TOG, for example, is my, guess you can say, resource for how to be patient because of how slow she reveals things. And I love that about those. So speaking of world building,

I'll go back a second more. What made you decide to write your first novel? I think you kind of touched on it just now, was that you were inspired by Sarah J. Maas. But what was the process that made you choose the direction you went?

Jessica Leigh (06:48)
Yeah, so you know, I feel like we in reading fantasy, especially if you're someone who's read a lot of fantasy and fantasy romance, modern fantasy, especially you've seen names and different. Well, I will just say fantasy names, for example.

we'll take Sarah J. Mass's work, so at ACOTAR. A lot of characters in that book, as I was reading through, the first time I thought, okay, this sounds really familiar. And I think we've chatted a little bit about this before, but I'm a student of mythology. I love mythology, folklore. It's just something I've always kind of nerded out about since I was little. So that's kind of like my realm of nonfiction is like learning about the fiction that inspired the nonfiction textbooks that were written about that, if that makes sense. So I really love learning about

mythology from a lot of different ancient parts of the world, especially Celtic mythology, that's kind of my niche. And so I noticed in reading her books and a lot of fantasy books, to be honest, there's a lot of themes and names especially of different gods and goddesses or different mythological figures throughout history that were kind of reused. And I thought, okay, this is like Morrigan, for example, from ACOTAR is the goddess, the Morrigan.

in Celtic mythology, but we weren't really telling the Morrigan story. It was sort of like, her name is great. know, same thing as a lot of other characters in these books. But what I really wanted to do is I thought, well, who's telling those stories? Like, who's keeping those legends alive? There are so many amazing, empowering myths and legends from antiquity all the way to recent times that we have documented that I feel those stories need to be told because they're inspiring.

One of the things that really interests me is a specific race of individuals that inhabited Ireland in ancient times in the Bronze Age called the Tuat De Dannann And they actually are where we get a lot of our legends and myths about the Fae that we use that are inspiring a lot of works, even fiction works to this day. A lot of them come from ancient Irish myths about the Tuatha De Danann And so I thought, you know what? I kind of want to tell the story of the Tuatha De Danann I want to like bring that to you.

the masses, so to speak. Like I wanna make an original storyline and a new kind of adventure, but I wanna bring those characters back to life and kind of revive some of their recognizability, if that's a word. But yeah, so just knowing what I know about the different myths and legends, it really inspired me to sit down and write a new cast of characters. And I wanted to tell their stories while at the same time, kind of weaving this narrative that had been bouncing around in my head.

that really helped to empower those that were reading it. So that's kind of the long answer, but basically just doing those stories justice. I really wanted to bring back what had been kind of forgotten for a long time.

Tina Koutras (09:28)
Perfect. That's amazing. And so just for people who may not be familiar with you, right now we're referring to Jessica's first book, Daughter Forged in Fire. So yeah, let's see. I know that Jessica's been recently launched her special edition. Is it launched already or getting ready to be launched? It is, yeah.

Jessica Leigh (09:46)
It is. Yeah, this is available

on my website. So it's available at authorjessicaleigh.com. You can also get it really anywhere you buy books. Amazon, Barnes and Noble online if you're overseas, Waterstones carries it. It's enabled for global distribution. I'm proud to say these books have sold in Germany, Australia, the UK, Canada, US, all over the world. But these are really cool because it's the first time I've been able to offer a dust jacket and hardcover. So you can read a little bit about the book here and then...

here, but the cool part I love is that there's these really cool custom chapter header illustrations. So those are for Daughter of Forged in Fire. So this is book one, and each character has their own custom page break that has like a little Easter egg in it, kind of about, so this is Rowan's, for example, and Tina, you know who Rowan is, so you can kind of see these are actually Rowan berries up here on the hills of this sort, so.

Tina Koutras (10:22)
beautiful.

I do.

Jessica Leigh (10:41)
In the books, my character Rhone has a sword called Feovar, and so that's Feovar. And then, book two, Destiny Spun, in Silver, set in the same world, but definitely brings in the underwater mythologic stories and legends, which I'm obsessed with. And for this one, these are our chapter headers. So this here is the Moonstone Sapphire, which if you read the book, you will learn exactly what that is.

Tina Koutras (11:01)
beautiful.

you

Jessica Leigh (11:08)
and

what it means to the characters in the story. yeah, those you think that anywhere you buy books. That's my plug.

Tina Koutras (11:11)
amazing.

Perfect.

And they're beautiful. You did a fantastic job with the covers.

Jessica Leigh (11:17)
Thank you. you. Crystal from Magic Book Cover Design did my covers for those. And if anyone is looking for a great book cover designer, I highly recommend working with her. She's absolutely amazing. She's great.

Tina Koutras (11:27)
Wicked.

Okay, so, and I guess we should say she did a very good job. So writing romantasy involves creating, like creativity, passion, and world building. What part of the writing process excites you the most?

Jessica Leigh (11:44)
I really love writing, I guess just kind of the action beats of the story. So I like plotting it out. I like kind of building the story and world building. World building is probably my favorite part just because I love making up all of the, the rules for the world the characters live in, so to speak. It's kind of a double edged sword at times though, because it's the best part. It's the most fun part to me, but that it can also be the most restrictive part as a writer. Cause you've then made up all these rules that you have to follow. So, you know.

If your world has a rule that everyone can only be five feet tall, which my world doesn't by the way, but if it did, and then you write someone who's really tall like you've broken your own rule, for example. But I love world building. I love writing action beats. That's kind of what I enjoy the most.

Tina Koutras (12:28)
awesome. And do you have a part that you don't love?

Jessica Leigh (12:33)
I like writing conflict, but I struggle with conflict with some characters. So we've chatted about this before, but I really hate writing this one specific character in my book. His name is Hedrick. If you've read it, you'll know who Prince Hedrick is. I wrote him, I created him, but I hate him. And I just struggled. There were some scenes where he was involved and it was...

Tina Koutras (12:45)
Yeah.

You

Jessica Leigh (12:54)
things that needed to happen to move the story along, but it was like abusive situations. It was really difficult to kind of pull that to the surface and bring that into fruition in a respectful way to the reader, but also in a realistic way that kind of got the storyline to where it needed to be. So I hate when he's on page, honestly, but you get past it. So.

Tina Koutras (13:17)
That's awesome. And I can totally imagine, like, I would find that writing a traitor would be really, really hard to write. Like, to capture, yeah, and to make it convincing, like stuff that you're really not expecting. That I find to be a big challenge. the harder the personality,

Jessica Leigh (13:27)
Someone who's keeping a secret. Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Tina Koutras (13:40)
when you're a soft personality, it's definitely, I can see it being a big challenge. you have to admire, we'll use the example of, know, Manon, for example, how aggressive she is and staying with that continuity of character, making certain that it's believable, right?

Jessica Leigh (13:46)
Yeah.

for sure. There's definitely something to be said for that. Like keeping your characters true to who you've made them out to be, you know? Yeah, for sure.

Tina Koutras (14:07)
Exactly, yeah. So The Chronicles

of Tuatha is an epic title. How did you choose the name? And I already know what inspired the world just from what we've talked about so far, but if there's anything in the name that you wanted to give it.

Jessica Leigh (14:23)
Yeah, so just really taking them from the Tuatha De Danonn which are an ancient race, like we said, that lived in ancient Ireland. We think they lived around the Bronze Age. We actually know that there was, supposedly there were a race of people called the Tuatha De Danonn Now, we don't know whether they were magic or not, right? Like, we can't really tell that, but we know that there were.

a race of people that did exist that were called that. And we know that because there is a documented text called the Book of Invasions that was written around the 12th century. And it details all the people who settled that continent. So the Tuatha de Danann is part of the inspiration for that title, but also because it's a little bit of an Easter egg because in book one, Rhianna and our main character, she finds kind of this tome, this chronicle of sort of the history of her people, which are called the Tuatha

and she it's called the Chronicles of Tuatha so it's kind of like the book she finds within the book you know like we're breaking the fourth wall a little bit but yeah that's kind of where i got the title from and why i decided to kind of spread it across the series but

Tina Koutras (15:14)
right.

Wicked. Okay, your books touch on topics like divine feminine energy and self discovery against a fantasy backdrop. How do you weave these deeper themes into an adventure filled romance?

Jessica Leigh (15:35)
Yeah, that's a good question. I really try to do that by staying true to who I feel that the characters are and kind of trying to be a good listener, so to speak, when I'm writing them and putting them to page, trying to really get to the heart of what they have to say, but also really giving inspiration to the reader as well and meaning that.

they're watching these characters go through a lot of difficult things, but the difficult things don't have to break you. They can make you into the person that you want to become. So every character has like this fork in the road, right? Like you choose one of two paths. And so I think that that's always kind of the goal in the back of my mind as I'm writing these characters through their arcs and things like that is, you know, what are they going to get out of this and how does that align with

where I see them headed for plot points as well.

Tina Koutras (16:23)
Right. So with reference to Daughter Forged in Fire, can you give listeners a sneak peek of the story? So I know everybody hates this moment, but your elevator pitch.

Jessica Leigh (16:34)
I know, that's like, it's so funny, because, you know, like we've, we've chatted about this before. It's like you ask an author, what's your book about? And you're like, but that's one thing that you, everything, like, where do I start? Right? I'm like pointing pictures on the wall and like drawing lines and yeah, it's, but honestly, that is such an important thing to be able to learn to do as a writer, especially a writer that wants to be, you know,

Tina Koutras (16:43)
It's about everything. Yeah.

Jessica Leigh (16:57)
get out into the mass market is be able to elevator pitch that book because it's people are going to ask you that every time they discover you're a writer, like what's your book about? you're like, none of your business. Read it.

Tina Koutras (17:03)
Yeah.

Yes.

I don't want to spoil it for you.

Jessica Leigh (17:10)
I was like that when I first started writing. felt like my entire, like telling anybody anything about the book was going to be a spoiler because pretty much the way that my book works is there's so many twists and turns. They leave the forest and then everything after that's a spoiler. But no, I guess to kind of summarize it, it's a story about, it's set in ancient Ireland, so in the Bronze Age, where there are mythical beings called the Tuatha

Tina Koutras (17:25)
You

Jessica Leigh (17:36)
that inhabit the island or the, like at that time they called it the continent of Ireland or Eire, E-I-R-E is how we say that. And they are being kind of overrun by this new race of people that we know as mortal men that have arrived on the continent, otherwise known as the Milesians. And history tells us the Milesians may have arrived from somewhere near the Iberian Peninsula historically. So just to give a little context on that for any other nerdy people that are listening.

so basically these two races of people are living together on this island and they are not getting along as time goes on. So at first things are fine, not getting along. So eventually all the people who are part of the Tuatha who also have these magical abilities, right? Cause they're the predecessors of the fey. They're sort of sequestered to living and hiding because they're being killed and they're seen as a threat. And so there's a lot of like political tensions. And so our story picks up where Rhiannon lives.

Currently in hiding with her grandmother in an enchanted wood, sounds like every fantasy fairy tale beginning, right? Long time ago in enchanted wood. However, things don't stay very enchanted for her very long because eventually things happen and she runs into a mortal blacksmith. So she's not super excited about meeting him at first because, you know, his people kind of want to take hers out. But they are forced to work together to find a long lost queen and a land that is rumored to exist like a homeland for the Tuatha of people.

And so both of them kind of have these reasons that they have to find this homeland and this long lost queen and Rowan is supposed to be this queen's sworn protector. So it sort of kind of ups the ante of the story a little bit and they find themselves understanding that they might have a little bit more in common than they thought that they did as they go along in the journey. So as the story unfolds, they pick up a lot of friends along the way and a lot of things happen in their world and to their world. And it just goes from there.

So, thanks.

Tina Koutras (19:25)
Amazing. So how

does the second book, Destiny Spun in Silver, build on that?

Jessica Leigh (19:31)
so it picks up directly where book one leaves off. And it kind of takes us to a lot of different places as the reader too. We get to not just visit the continent or the kingdom of Eira like Overland, I should say, but we get to visit a lot of the different realms that the two people lived in, which is true to the legends. They were beyond what's called the Sidhe which is spelled S-I-D-H-E. So you can go to different realms. One of the places we go to in book two is called Cher Fahun.

And it's sort of like the Irish version of Atlantis. It is an underwater kingdom that a whole different sect of the two live. And so they're sort of brothers to the ones who live on land, but they live in the sea. And so this is also true to the Irish myth. So yeah, there's a lot of different environments we get to travel to. We meet a lot of new characters that sort of come in and flip the story a little bit in terms of the ante and they kind of up the ante a little bit.

And we're seeing that as tensions are building between the Tuatha and the Milesians, that war is starting to break out in different small pieces of the continent. And so that sort of drags our characters into this conflict as well.

Tina Koutras (20:38)
that's amazing. And did you always know where you were going or did things kind of develop on their own?

Jessica Leigh (20:39)
Thank you.

so a little bit of both. I kind of knew where I wanted the story ahead. There have been some parts of this story, even things in book three that are already wrapped that I've known are going to happen since the very beginning. But then there's been some surprises too. For anyone who's read book one, you kind of know that that particular book has a very like non-traditional story structure versus being the three act structure of two main characters here, here, here. Now the story's over.

In chapter 10, a new character sort of just like splats herself on the screen and comes in real hard and fast and then becomes a very important part of the story. And she is honestly one of the biggest characters that appears in book two. She's, I would almost call her the main character of book two in a way. so it's, it's just a little different. So there are some surprises in there for sure, even to me that I didn't see coming, but, I feel like they turned out in a good way. Is it a pleasant surprise?

Tina Koutras (21:35)
Okay,

that's wicked. So did you have a favorite character to write during these books?

Jessica Leigh (21:38)
Thanks.

My girl, Anya. Yes. Anya is the main character of book two, I would say, but she's in book one. She is sort of an iteration of the goddess, the Morrigan, and has a lot of really difficult things that she sort of traverses through the story. And her character arc has been one of my favorite things to write. So I would say she definitely has a special place in my heart, probably because she was the loudest.

She always tell people that she showed up in book one and was like, knock, knock, it's my turn. So even when I wasn't intending to take the story in that direction, that's kind of what happened. So other writers, think, may be able to relate with that too.

Tina Koutras (22:13)
Yeah

I imagine. I think every writer falls in love with who they're writing and I mean well with the exception of the bad guys. And can you can you share any of your favorite scenes? No spoilers of course. Or any moments in the book that were especially fun or challenging to write?

Jessica Leigh (22:31)
Yeah, I don't love Hendrick. I write him because I have to.

sure. That's a good question. So in terms of challenging, think that, you know, book two picks up where book one left off and without giving too much away, there is a big decision that gets made at the end of book one. And it's not an easy decision, but it's kind of this really emotional sacrifice that happens. And after that sacrifice, we pick up sort of in the melancholy of it in book two. So book two opens with

these characters kind of living out the consequences of that, the good and the bad. And that was really difficult to tread through as a writer is getting in their heads and living in that sorrow that they're in for the time that they're in it. And that I won't spoil too much, but the separation, it's just the whole thing. So that was difficult. I think in terms of what I love to write,

I've really enjoyed writing revenge arcs. I know that sounds bad, but there is a pretty significant revenge arc that is honestly kind of, it's a spin. So it's like, if you're not really attuned to what's actually going on in the story, it might be seen as like a huge twist. Like, oh man, I didn't see that coming. So I've had a few readers say that. A few readers are like, no, I kind of knew that was going to happen. But a lot of readers are like, whoa, I did not see that coming in the end of book two. And one of the things...

Tina Koutras (23:39)
you

Jessica Leigh (24:03)
that that has to do with is this really emotional climactic scene between villain and person villain harmed. So I really, I enjoyed writing that scene a lot, because it just felt very justified.

Tina Koutras (24:16)
and I could imagine. Okay. So I guess we're going to switch over to tropes a little bit. Fantasy romance is packed with amazing tropes. Do you have a personal favorite?

Jessica Leigh (24:20)
Yeah, it was great.

I always laugh because I feel like no matter what I write, unless it's a modern thing, one horse always makes its way into like it's a micro trope that always makes its way into my work. I mean, I'm a girlly girl at my heart, so I'm always gonna love enemies to lovers till I die. So I love to read it. I love to write it. I like writing witty banter. That's my favorite thing to write. It's one of my favorite things to read.

As far as ones that I don't love as much, did you ask about ones I don't love as much? Okay. I had opinions about those. I really cannot stand third act breakups and miscommunication tropes just get me like, I know it's a really common way that writers use to put conflict in the story, especially toward like the climax of the story, but it really just gets me cause I'm like.

Tina Koutras (25:00)
No, I'm gonna. So, so give her, let me hear. Which one, which ones don't you like?

Jessica Leigh (25:23)
why aren't they talking? Just communicate, right? Like it is not hard. Why would you think this happened and you don't even know, right? The pregnancy trope also, I think, pregnancy is great, but in the story when that has to be how it ends for everybody to get happy ever after, I'm like, but it doesn't though. So I don't know. That's, that's my personal pet peeve.

Tina Koutras (25:43)
Yeah, I could see that. I have seen it done really, really well once before. However, I can see how it can be kind of anticlimactic almost. So what's the one trope that you'll, you've already said, I guess, the enemies to lovers and the one horse are kind of your ones that you never get sick of.

Jessica Leigh (25:52)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and witty banter too, like I like writing witty banter. I think it's mainly because I'm just a sarcastic person. It's fun to make my character sassy too. I don't think I've ever written a female character that's not sassy. I don't think I could.

Tina Koutras (26:15)
And these are the only three books that you've done so far though, right?

Jessica Leigh (26:19)
I've written a short story before. I've written these books and then I'm working on another book right now as well. So I should say works in progress, but I do have a short story that's published as well who has a character named Charlie and she's my FMC in that story.

Tina Koutras (26:31)
Can you tell me a little bit about that short story?

Jessica Leigh (26:33)
Yeah, so it's called The Hidden Gods of Appalachia and it was written as an anthology for a benefit of Western North Carolina post Hurricane Helene. So if you're not familiar, Hurricane Helene was extremely detrimental to Western North Carolina and so a lot of us authors in North Carolina came together, NCNDs as an organization here, and said, hey, we want to put together a charity anthology. So if anyone buys this access to the ebook anthology, the

purchased for it basically is donating to a charity that directly benefits this area and the relief effort. So if you go to ncnds.org, you can find access to that. And so basically my story is about Appalachian folklore. So it's a little bit of dark romance, a little bit of horror, a little bit of Appalachian folklore. So we're talking skinwalkers, wendigos.

those types of legends, but sort of wrapped up in a little bit of a mystery suspense thriller romance subplot. The short story, it will eventually be a full-length novella. So my goal is to release that in the next year or so. So it's coming to be a full-length novella, but for now it is only available on the anthology. So if you want to learn about Charlie and Warren's story, you can read the Hidden Gods of Appalachia. And it's called, the anthology is called To Appalachia With Love.

and it's on Goodreads, so if you look it up, you can find it there.

Tina Koutras (27:53)
wicked.

I wanted to ask how that fundraiser went, if it was a very successful...

Jessica Leigh (28:04)
So good. We raised thousands of dollars for the area and it was awesome. So I think it was over a hundred. I want to say it was over a hundred. Yeah, because we had two different ones. There was a charity anthology and then I think there was

Tina Koutras (28:09)
And how many authors did you say were part of it? wow.

Jessica Leigh (28:21)
it was a raffle. So they also did one where everyone donated their books and they raffled them off. I think altogether it was like several, several thousand dollars for the area, which is very much needed. And it was really my pleasure to be able to do that and to be a part of it. So it's still out there, it's still available here in Asheville. We're still rebuilding. So if anyone's interested, if you're listening, you can still find that.

Tina Koutras (28:29)
that's amazing.

That's amazing. Very cool. so back to tropes a little bit, or at least story-based. If you could invite any two characters from your books to dinner, who would they be and why?

Jessica Leigh (28:43)
Thanks.

This always makes me giggle, these kinds of questions. think Anya, you know, because I love her, first of all. I think she would make great dinner conversation because she just has a lot to say. But I would only invite her on the condition that she doesn't stab anyone.

Tina Koutras (29:09)
You

Jessica Leigh (29:09)
He has a little bit of a temper too. so Anya and probably Rowan, just because he's kind of like the protector, takes care of everybody. He would make sure that like everyone got their plate, everyone got their food. He would honestly probably be cooking the food. he's just that kind. He's a cinnamon roll. he's a cinnamon roll MMC. I can't remember the terminology. One of my friends who's also a writer used a terminology about cinnamon rolls the other day. And it was like,

Wasn't like a Shadow Daddy sim. I think she called it a synodom. A synodom main male character. I would say Rowan is kind of a synodom main male character because he can very much take control, but he's also like, I would burn the entire world for you because you said so kind of thing. So we love to see it.

Tina Koutras (29:41)
You

Yeah,

And what do you suppose you guys would be eating if Rowan was cooking?

Jessica Leigh (30:04)
man, I don't know. mean, he cooks some pretty good rabbit in the book. That was, that was great. probably something he hunted in the woods. I don't know.

Tina Koutras (30:07)
Yeah, figured rabbit.

So your stories often give us like swoon worthy moments. Do you have any favorite romantic scenes that you've written?

Jessica Leigh (30:21)
yes, I love writing romance scenes. Sorry, my ice maker's making weird noises in the background. Yeah, that's kind of one of my favorite things. I like writing the banter, but I also like writing just like the dialogue of romance. I just think that it's a really cool way for characters to express themselves in different ways. I really love the romantic growth, and again, not to give too much away, between Anya and Dagda in book two, because I just feel like it's so...

It's kind of like the calm after the storm. Like they've both been through a tremendous amount of stuff and the world that they're living in is kind of in turmoil, but they sort of find this quietness in each other and this like peace and solace in each other. And I just think that that's so well done. Their relationship reminds me a lot of Cassian and Nesta in a different way because she's a little bit like Nesta in the fact of like.

I don't need anybody. Like I will stab you. I'm fine. And he's kind of like, you're not fine, but it's okay. You know? so I don't know. I really like writing the, the chemistry between those two. And then Rowan and Ria's chemistry is just, it's more, I guess like climactic and there are sparks and it's, it's very bright, so to speak. It's flashy. Yeah. I would say it's, it's very bright. no holds barred. So I love them. There'll always be kind of my.

Tina Koutras (31:28)
flashy.

Jessica Leigh (31:36)
my first couple that I'll always have that I've written about. yeah, Ania and Dogda 's romance is a little bit different.

Tina Koutras (31:43)
Yeah, for sure. Okay, so a little bit behind the curtain, let's go into the mechanics. Are you a plotter or an on-the-fly kind of writer and some glorious chaotic mix?

Jessica Leigh (31:57)
Yeah, so I think I'm a little bit of both. I started off this story kind of

I mean, I always start off a manuscript plotting. My plotting process looked very different in book one than it did in book two. And now in book three, it's even evolved from there. Just to sort of bring in different strategies for like laying out what I want to do with the story and where I see it going. But I think a lot of it definitely is like in the writing world, we call it being a pantser, like flying by the seat of your pants. so I think I'm a pantser for a lot of the nitty gritty of the story, so to speak. Like I've got the bones, right? Like I'm, laying out the

skeleton, I've got the bones there, but then for all the little fleshy details, I don't plot in detail, if that makes sense. I'm more of a planner when it comes to that, so.

Tina Koutras (32:40)
Cool. And what does a typical writing day look like for you?

Jessica Leigh (32:46)
So a typical writing day kind of looks like however I can squeeze it into my day to be honest. So I work full time, a couple jobs and I usually have time to write in the morning. So I'll either get up early and write in the morning or I'll write kind of into the night at nighttime when I really should be in bed. So whenever I can find time to write but really when I can just try to find a moment during the day where my mind is quiet and I can get back into the space with those characters.

Tina Koutras (33:12)
Yeah. And how often or on a good day, what's a good day of writing?

Jessica Leigh (33:17)
So if I can at least get a thousand words out, I'm feeling good about it. like yesterday morning, I woke up and a couple hours before I needed to start getting ready for work and got a thousand words out and was kind of surprised because the story started to just flesh out more than I expected it to. And that happens sometimes, but you'll also have those days where I do where I'm like, okay, today's goal, 1500 words. sit down and I get 300 words out. My brain's like, we're done here. That's it. It's all we got for today. And I'm like, no.

right? So it just depends. if the day is a great day and things are flowing and they're going good, I've had days where I'm like, man, I wrote 4,000 words today. that's a lot, you know? But some days I'm lucky if I can get 300. So it really just kind of looks like a roller coaster sometimes, but that's okay. We get there.

Tina Koutras (33:56)
Yeah.

And does it depend on who you're writing about?

Jessica Leigh (34:07)
Yes, very much so. Yeah, Hedrick's days are definitely 300 word days. But you know, when I'm writing about my girl Anya, I might hit 4,000.

Tina Koutras (34:17)
Yeah, that's amazing.

So do you have a typical ritual or a habit that you always do?

Jessica Leigh (34:25)
Yeah, so I'm a tea girly. I always have my cup of tea. I drink my coffee in the mornings, but it's funny after about 10 a.m. I can't drink coffee anymore. Like I can have like a Starbucks or something, but I'm always making a cup of tea when it comes time to write. So I love a warm cup of tea. I'm a cozy reader, so I'm also a cozy writer. And then I also always love to burn a candle just because I feel like that's a really good visual thing to be able to focus on. Just the flickering of the flame and the scents and things like that. It's a little bit more grounding for me. So

Tina Koutras (34:53)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Leigh (34:54)
candle in a cup of tea and I'm all set.

Tina Koutras (34:57)
Nice. And I think you have told me before that you have a certain candle that means something to you for this first book.

Jessica Leigh (35:05)
I do. So this is always, I always tell my spooky story candle or spooky candle story. So when I was writing book one, I had a tapered candle. was sort of like, well, it was actually more of a pillar, I guess. It's one of the tall cylindrical ones, just a plain black unscented candle. I think I bought it from like a metaphysical shop in my town and it was over near my desk and I just kind of had it burning just as a visual, again, just a grounding tool. And

As you know, candles, wax is supposed to burn down. With this candle, for whatever reason, it burned up, like in the upward direction on both sides. But on one side, after I finished writing the chapters that Anya showed up in in my book, and Anya again is an iteration of the Morrigan who is very heavily represented by ravens and blackbirds, I see the exact figure of a blackbird perched on the side of this candle and the wax had formed in the shape of a blackbird.

And I don't think we've talked about this before, but even going beyond that, I kept burning the candle and it turned into a cloaked figure that had a Raven poised on its shoulder. I'm not even kidding. I'm like, okay, this is a real woo woo hippie spooky, but, you can't make this stuff up. So I have pictures if anybody wants to see, I'll send them to you on Instagram, I took a bajillion pictures cause I was like, there's no way. And I guess it was just on you. She was like, it's fine. It's just me.

Tina Koutras (36:13)
You

That's so fun. I would have totally taken a picture too.

That's amazing. And do you have any current dream projects that you're working on? Again, no spoilers.

Jessica Leigh (36:31)
I do.

I do. So without kind of giving away too much, I have a project that I've been thinking about ruminating on, plotting out, and beginning to write.

that I, you know, of course I want to finish the series I'm working on. That's priority number one. Like I'm on a deadline for Chronicles of the Tuath a Book Three, and I really do want to do justice to that series and finish it strongly for all characters involved. But I do have a project that I'm planning on trying to publish traditionally. So I want to push it for trad publication, either sometime later this year or next year. And it already has a title. I've released it on my Instagram. It's called Empire of Wolves and Roses.

And this book is set in ancient Rome. So it's gladiator and it's about a gladiator and one of the what's called Vestal Virgins are priestesses of Vesta who was basically they were priestesses of the goddess Vesta in ancient Rome. So it's an ancient Roman book. So lots of Roman mythology there, lots of stories about the origin of Rome as well. So Rhea with Remus and Romulus and things like that. There's a lot of things kind of tied into the story itself, but also a lot of history.

And so it's been one of the big things I've been doing as I've plotted it is really becoming a student of Roman history and things like I went to Rome. So the whole thing that triggered this and I probably should have began with that is, I went to Rome last year and toward the Coliseum, toward Palestine Hill and the temple of Vesta, the ruins. And I was like, okay, I have to write a story about this. Like, this is so exciting because if you've been to Rome, you know, the Coliseum is right here and all this other stuff that was kind of the main attraction of town.

like right next to it. Everything's kind of compacted together in the center of this city. And I thought there's no way that these priestesses who are living these devout lives, you know, tending the sacred flames of Rome and devoted to their goddess. And then these gladiators existed and never ran into each other. that doesn't make sense. So I kind of want to make it happen. So that's what I'm doing. I've teased it a little bit on my Instagram.

But I'm hoping to push it for traditional publication

Tina Koutras (38:33)
How far are you in writing?

Jessica Leigh (38:35)
not very far. but the story lives up here. The story is completely plotted out actually. so I know how it's going to end. I know it's going to be a one standalone series book. one standalone book I should say. but yeah, I know pretty much all the things about the plot points that will happen. I just don't know the details and haven't fleshed it out quite yet on paper, but we're getting there.

Tina Koutras (38:36)
Okay.

Awesome. And who knows if it'll be one book. You know how it is. so if a production studio came knocking tomorrow ready to adapt your books for the screen, would you say yes?

Jessica Leigh (38:59)
This is true, it could very well turn into two or three.

I would say yes with the caveat that I could be involved in the process of seeing the adaptation take on that role. I think that would be really exciting opportunity for any author. I can't imagine an author being like, no, never not you Netflix, you know, I think it would be so exciting to even just have that. Someone be interested in pushing my books for that type of, of media exposure. But I think that I would really, it would be important to me.

to be involved to make sure that the undertones of the story structure stayed true to form as it translated onto the screen. Because we know this from seeing film adaptations of books in the past that that doesn't always happen, unfortunately. And so sometimes the readers feel like, it wasn't really done justice. So I would say if one day that happened, absolutely, as long as I could be in the background like, hey.

Tina Koutras (39:57)
Hey.

And so this is kind of out there, but who do you suppose would play your four main characters if you were to pick? And if you can't really necessarily think of who they might be, one or two, or do you ever see somebody on TV and go, that's Rowan.

Jessica Leigh (40:15)
man, yes. Me and my friend Cassandra were joking about this the other day that like every male main character in your book can it just be Henry Cavill but he plays everyone. I mean if Henry Cavill could be Rowan like absolutely. But you know that's such a basic answer. I actually do and I'm gonna have to look up her name really quickly because I have seen a character and I didn't know honestly who she was until I researched like

Tina Koutras (40:24)
hahahahah

Jessica Leigh (40:42)
who like her face and her picture and things like that. But I saw her on Pinterest when I was putting together some vision boards about Daughter, Forged in Fire. And I was like, okay, this actress looks a lot like how I imagine Rhia and it's Abigail Cowan, can kind of show you a picture. She looks like this. Yeah, she's like really bright eyes. Rowan.

Tina Koutras (41:02)
Okay, yeah, that's kind of how I picture her too.

Jessica Leigh (41:07)
Ria has blue eyes and red hair. has green eyes and red hair, but she played on the show, I think called the Winks Club. but so it's like a fantasy type show, but yeah, I just imagined her as Ria. She looks just like Ria and she was a lot on my, a of my vision boards as Ria. Rowan, I don't know, maybe Henry Cavill, Anya and Dogda like we'll see. I don't know. I can kind of see Alexander Skarsgard playing. Is it Alexander Skarsgard?

Tina Koutras (41:12)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Leigh (41:34)
Maybe I'm missing. It's one of the skars gard brothers playing dogda It's the one who was in the Northman. Have you seen the Northman? That's not Alexander. it? Is it? Okay. Yeah. I'm getting him mixed up. get him and bill mixed up all the time. Alexander Skars gard Um, that is, that is for sure. But with red hair and I don't really know. Anya. She's such a mystery character sometimes even to me. So

Tina Koutras (41:41)
Yeah. Yes. Yes, it is. I believe so. Yeah, I think so.

Jessica Leigh (42:03)
I don't know, we'll have to see. To be continued. It is! It's a fun idea to like toss it around, for sure.

Tina Koutras (42:05)
Well, it's kind of fun to play with,

And

you see it on social a lot of times when a big storyline is coming out, like when Game of Thrones came out, there was a lot of that going around where people were picking their dream team for the cast, right? So it's kind of fun to do. So obviously the next question for me is easy, but what fantasy animal, if you could have one sitting with you when you write, would it be?

Jessica Leigh (42:18)
my God.

Mm-hmm.

man, so I like dragons a lot. I have not put any dragons in my story because it doesn't fit the context of my mythology in that realm. But I love your dragon picture in the background. He's super cool. Love that. I have my dragon mug today actually, my Simru mug that I got in Wales. Another red dragon.

Tina Koutras (42:42)
Thank you.

Yeah, it's the beautiful

thing about whales is that they're, they're, they're, they don't have a beaver. In Canada, we have a beaver, they get a dragon.

Heeeh!

Jessica Leigh (43:00)
No, I think a dragon but we might have talked about this previously There's a name for it when it's not a dry is it wyverns that are smaller and more dainty

Tina Koutras (43:08)
Yeah, despite some storylines, yes Wyverns were according to like I played Dungeons and Dragons like my whole life. So in Dungeons and Dragons Wyverns were much smaller than dragons, whereas Rebecca Yaros has them like much larger. you know, fantasy is fantasy and that's what's fun about it.

Jessica Leigh (43:21)
Yeah.

Big, yeah.

That's right. That's right. Yeah.

So I would say like a Wyvern, but like one that could be the size of my cat and like cuddle with me while I'm writing and drinking my tea. That's my ultimate fantasy companion.

Tina Koutras (43:34)
I'm not sure

he'd be quite as soft as your cat, but you know.

Jessica Leigh (43:44)
Probably not,

but they'd probably end up snuggling still nonetheless.

Tina Koutras (43:46)
Yeah, for sure.

Okay, so, I guess just a quick fire round now. Questions super fast. Favorite fictional couple?

Jessica Leigh (43:53)
I love it

Nesta and Cassian.

Tina Koutras (43:58)
three

words that describe the chronicles of Tuatha.

Sorry, I said it wrong. Tuah.

Jessica Leigh (44:04)
it's okay. I don't notice.

twists and turns is one. mystical is another one because like the world itself is mystical. You don't ever know what's really happening. And for the third, I would just say

immersive. It's just immersive. Like at least writing it, I think once you get yourself in the story, you get caught, get sucked in and it kind of becomes where you live for that time period that you're opening the book and or writing the book. So thank you. Thank you.

Tina Koutras (44:26)
Well said. That's a great way to word

it. If you could step into one of your books for a day, what would you do first?

Jessica Leigh (44:36)
besides Flick Hedrick on the nose. I don't love him.

I would probably ask Rowan if I could ride Shamus, which is Rowan's horse, because I love him. He is honestly one of the coolest characters in the story and he doesn't even do that much, but for a horse, he has all kinds of attitude and I love riding horses with attitude. So, I would ride Shamus. I would probably tell Dogda to stop taking himself so seriously. I would like high five my girl Anya. High five. yeah.

Tina Koutras (44:52)
Yeah

Jessica Leigh (45:03)
And I would ask Rhea where she gets her hair products from because she just she has the coolest hair in the book.

Tina Koutras (45:08)
You've the glorious hair. I don't

think you need much help. You've got some pretty nice looking hair. So lastly, to end them on a magical note, what's one thing that you hope that your readers would take from your stories?

Jessica Leigh (45:13)
Oh, I think. It's not as pretty as Ria's, but you know, we can't all be fictional, so.

I it's multifaceted. So I really hope that in reading the stories, they learn that, again, what happens to us doesn't have to change the trajectory of our destinies. We are more than where we came from. We are more than what we've been given and what we were born with. You can cultivate your own fire. You never know what your destiny might hold. So there's always room to change your path.

There's always ways that you can deviate and you can make your life what you want it to be. So that's kind of like the Hallmark card version. But I think on a bigger scale for other writers, somebody out there needs to hear your story. There is a story for every person. And I truly, truly believe that. That if you're someone who's listening to this and you're like, I'm really thinking of putting this story to paper and bringing it to life. I just say really just do that.

Just dive in, just do it, put it out there. It's scary, it's terrifying. The world could potentially chew it up and spit it out, but your story's never gonna get told otherwise and someone really might need to hear it. So that's what I would say.

Tina Koutras (46:32)
That's a very beautiful sentiment.

Jessica Leigh (46:34)
Thank you. This from the heart. That's how I feel.

Tina Koutras (46:37)
It really is. And you know, I need to hear it. So lastly, where can people find you?

Jessica Leigh (46:40)
as the obvious.

Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram @authorjessleigh. So Instagram. TikTok is author Jessica Lee and then my website has links to all my socials. So it's authorjessicaleigh.com I also have an author shop there that has not only signed copies of my books, you can get hard covers, paperbacks. I also have some really fun bookish goodies because I like to do graphic design on the side. So I've got like some really fun pens and book totes and fun stuff like that. So.

But I really love my favorite part of this writer journey has been just learning and connecting with readers. So my favorite thing is when readers reach out to me or listeners to this podcast, even on Instagram and say, Hey, you know, how's it going? Let's be friends. So I love that. Definitely reach out and give me a shout.

Tina Koutras (47:28)
It was awesome getting the chance to sit down with you and be able to talk about both your books and your upcoming ones. And I really appreciate you taking the time to share with us.

Jessica Leigh (47:32)
You too.

Thank you.

Absolutely, this has been so awesome. Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here. I really appreciate it. Absolutely.

Tina Koutras (47:45)
Thank you so much.

You can find book 1: A Daughter Forged in Fire here